Thursday night was this year's federal election's only English debate. BIV reporters followed the proceedings and compiled a play-by-play of all the updates from event held in Gatineau, Que.
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6:10 p.m.: The debate opened with tough questions for each of the five leaders present. NDP leader Jagmeet Singh was asked how he plans to pay for the expensive spending promised by his party platform, and Singh unsurprisingly went to the party core policy of targetting the wealthy with taxes and closing loopholes.
Liberals leader Justin Trudeau again faced questions of why he decided to call a snap election during a pandemic, and Trudeau maintained his stance that this is about finishing the fight against COVID. "I know you want to go harder and faster with vaccinations; you can do exactly that with this election," he said.
Conservatives leader Erin O'Toole was asked whether his centrist stances on vaccination and the environment will remain intact if the Tories take charge. O'Toole reiterated his more centrist stances such as his support for the LGBQT community, adding that he is "driving the bus to make sure we get the back back on track."
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6:20 p.m.: First evidence of how Green leader Annamie Paul is an effective debater: On a question towards Trudeau about diversity and inclusivity, Paul went after the Liberal leader by naming ousted former MPs Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott as evidence that Trudeau isn't actually a feminist.
The response spurred a sharp response from Trudeau to Paul. "I won't be taking classes on caucus management from you," he said, referring to Paul's own issues within the Green Party.
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6:25 p.m.: Foreign policy has made a bigger presence than in the 2019 debate, as one of the first major topic came to the forefront: How Canada should respond to an increasingly aggressive China on issues like the arrest of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.
It is here where all party leaders concentrated criticism at Trudeau, who has been viewed by observers as being more diplomatic with Beijing. Trudeau noted he has been working with the G7 and other allies to put pressure towards China at every turn, but O'Toole, Singh and Paul all went after Trudeau for the Liberal leader and his cabinet missing out on a vote to declare the situation in Xinjiang as a genocide against the Uighur people.
"Canada's voice has been absent," O'Toole said. "... We have to get serious on China."
"You can't just lob tomatoes with China," Trudeau responded "That's what [former Tories Prime Minister] Stephen Harper tried at the beginning, and it didn't go anywhere."
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6:32 p.m.: Trudeau and O'Toole had the first opportunity to face off directly during the discussion on climate change. Trudeau made a bid for votes here in B.C., mentioning in passing that O'Toole has proposed to restore the Northern Gateway pipeline plans - a project that was scuttled after heavy opposition by First Nations and environmentalists in B.C.
O'Toole, meanwhile, focused on his message that it is possible to keep emissions down to meet the Paris Accord standards while also growing the economy. "There's so much we can do to grow the economy; without it, we can't fight climate change."
Trudeau fired back: "What Mr. O'Toole doesn't understand is that you can't have an economic recovery without fighting climate change first."
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7 p.m.: The shadow of former Liberals MP and Trudeau cabinet minister Wilson-Raybould looms large during the debate section on reconciliation with Indigenous communities.
Paul and O'Toole both referenced the former federal minister of justice in attacking Trudeau's record on relations with Indigenous groups. When asked about how Trudeau plans to speak with First Nations leaders on how to move forward, O'Toole pounced. "Mr. Trudeau lost a chance to talk with an Indigenous leader within his own caucus; that was Jody Wilson-Raybould."
Singh, meanwhile, went after Trudeau for the fact that many First Nations communities remain without clean drinking water - a charge that Trudeau fired back on.
"The enemy to progressive policy is cynicism," he said, noting the Liberal government has already removed the boil-water orders for a majority of the Indigenous communities that had them - and efforts are underway to fix the rest. "There's always more to do... and we continue to work with partnerships and respect. We are not done yet."
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7:10 p.m.: Bloc Quebecois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet was asked about systematic racism in Quebec, and the Bloc leader took a slightly softer stance than he did in the French debates, saying he is open to discuss the issue in "quiet settings" away from what he described as a growing toxicity in the conversation.
"It became a tool to say Quebec is racist," Blanchet said, again implying systematic racism is not an issue beyond specific isolated events. "It became this society versus that society, and the [discourse] became toxic."
That line, however, spurred a strong reaction not from Singh (who has challenged Blanchet on the issue in both French debates previously) but from Paul, who said her "jaw dropped" upon hearing Blanchet's response.
Blanchet, in turn, said he felt insulted and asked for time to respond. When denied the opportunity by Moderator Shachi Kurl, Blanchet complained about being given the least amount of time to talk in the English-language debate - to which the host said the Bloc leader had "ample opportunity" to explain his stance on issues.
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7:30 p.m.: From BIV's energy reporter, Nelson Bennett -
On climate change and energy, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh slammed the Trudeau government for supporting the oil and gas sector, but when asked if he would cancel the $12.6 billion Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, Singh refused to answer.
“What we shouldn't do is what Mr. Trudeau did – set targets and miss them,” Singh said. “We shouldn't promise to end fossil fuel subsidies, and then increase them. We shouldn't put a price on pollution, and then exempt the biggest polluters.”
Singh said Canada has had the worst record under the Trudeau government on climate change action of the G7 nations, and Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole said the Trudeau government has failed to meet its climate targets.
Trudeau shot back that the previous Conservative government did not act on climate change, and pointed out that the targets are long-term – the first milestone being 2030 – when the Trudeau government has pledged to bring emissions down by 40%.
Blanchet called for a cap on oil and gas and said money spent on Trans Mountain pipeline should be given to Alberta instead to help it transition to cleaner industries.
The Green Party would go even further and shut down fossil fuel production in Canada altogether. She was challenged by the moderator to explain how her party would mitigate the economic damage that would result.
“Canada will remain an energy superpower,” Paul answered. “It will be a renewable energy superpower.”
O’Toole said shutting down Canadian industries won’t do much to stop emissions produced by other fossil fuel producing countries, however.
“Anytime Canadian resources are removed from the global supply chain you know who fills that gap? Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Russia,” he said.
“If any type of energy is removed from the global market, Canadian energy is replaced by a bad actor country that doesn't have carbon reduction programs that doesn't have human rights, it doesn't have engagement with indigenous communities.”
In response to Singh’s criticisms that Canada has missed its emissions reduction targets, Trudeau pointed out that experts in energy and climate change policies – Mark Jaccard at Simon Fraser University, Jennifer Winter at the University of Calgary and former BC Green Party Leader Andrew Weaver among them – have endorsed the Liberal climate plan as the most realistic, and the NDP plan as the least realistic.
“Why do the experts give you an F on climate change?” Trudeau asked Singh during one heated exchange. “He cannot explain why his plan is being panned by experts.”
Trudeau added that the Liberal plan been verified by independent third parties.
“We are right now on track to exceed those 2030 targets set at the beginning, in Paris, down to 36%, and we've gone even further with that with a concrete plan that the experts have said, is the only one that can achieve a 40% (reduction).”
Moderator Shachi Kurl cited polls that suggest one in four Canadians don’t believe climate change is manmade, which Trudeau seized on.
“Mr. O'Toole can't even convince his party that climate change is real,” he said.
O’Toole appeared to admit his party has not taken climate change seriously in the past.
“We have to win back some trust,” he said. “We haven’t met the expectations of Canadians on climate change.”
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7:45 p.m.: From Nelson Bennett -
Trudeau was slammed for his government’s handling of the evacuation of Canadians from Afghanistan, as it was falling to the Taliban, while the U.S. and coalition forces withdrew.
“When Afghanistan was falling there were 1,200 Canadians and hundreds more translators and others waiting for help from Canada,” O’Toole said. What did Mr. Trudeau do? You called you call an election, sir.”
Trudeau defended his government’s response, saying “as of the very beginning of August, well before this election, we were getting flights out of Afghanistan. We got 330,700 people out of Afghanistan.”
But Paul said the Trudeau government seemed to suffer a lack of good intelligence.
“As a former diplomat, and with a husband who provided advice on the peace negotiations in Afghanistan, we were hearing the stories all the time in the months leading up that this was foreseeable.
"It seems like we got better information on our smartphones than Mr. Trudeau got from our entire intelligence service, based on what he's saying.”
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7:54 p.m.: Financial policy has entered the debate for the first time this evening. During an open debate on policy changes to reduce the cost of living between Trudeau and O'Toole, the Conservative leader attack the Liberals' deficit spending during the pandemic and beyond, raising concerns that a continuation would lead to inflation.
"Unlike Mr. Trudeau, we will care about monetary policy," O'Toole said. "Mr. Trudeau seems to be completely oblivious to the issues; he is making it worse with half-a-billion-dollars worth of borrowing a day... Our goal is to balance the budget over the next decade."
Trudeau was unapologetic, emphasizing the spending was necessary to keep Canadians supported.
"At the beginning of the pandemic, I made a promise to Canadians that we will have their backs," Trudeau said. "That's exactly what we have done... and we need to continue to do so.
"It's because that's exactly the way to ensure an economic recovery," he concluded.
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7:59 p.m.: From Nelson Bennett -
All the leaders promised to create jobs. But Blanchet pointed out the problem in Canada is a shortage of skilled workers.
“They are promising jobs," he said. " They should be promising workers.”
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8 p.m. - And that's a wrap! The debate ended Kurl cutting off Trudeau on trying to make a final point. The debate highlighted all five leaders, although - other than some pointed comments by Paul and Blanchet - the attention appears to have squarely moved to the battle between Trudeau and O'Toole, the two leading candidates in the polls.
Both leaders took every chance to redirect questions with a response that directly ties to their opponents' supposed weaknesses: Trudeau repeated landed on the fact that O'Toole cannot convince some of his own Tories candidates to get vaccinated as a sign that the Conservatives will not effectively handle the pandemic, while O'Toole returned fire at Trudeau by making multiple reference to the Liberals government falling behind on fronts such as climate change goals and international relations.
We now await the result of the Sept. 20 election. According to CBC's latest poll tracker (from Thursday morning), the Tories hold a narrow 33.5%-31.6% lead over the Liberals - with the NDP at 20%, the Bloc at 5.8% and the Greens at 3%.
